The

Sonoanatomy
Experience

Ultrasound. Inject. Dissect.

The FACEit Live is an innovative, first ever conference that will integrate the technology of ultrasound with a hands on cadaver anatomy experience.

November 1-3, 2024

Le Meridien, Cambridge MA

The ULTIMATE combination of Ultrasound & Anatomy.

Attendees will have the ability to attend one, two or both days to dive into the details of ultrasound in aesthetics and advanced cadaveric anatomy in an intimate, small group setting. We will take you to new levels of anatomical visualization in 3D as well as concomitant ultrasound visualization with a dedicated FACEit Live Faculty instructor.

Esteemed Faculty & Scientific Advisory Committee

TRAIN WITH WORLD-CLASS FACULTY

THE ULTIMATE ULTRASOUND AND ANATOMY EXPERIENCE

Sonoanatomy Experience

November 1 - 3, 2024
LE MERIDIEN, CAMBRIDGE MA

Enjoy Some Luxury

Venue

Le Meridien, Cambridge MA

November 1-3, 2024

Book your group rate for FaceitLive 2024 Attendee Room Block

You will find the information for your online reservation link below. If you have questions or need help with the link, please do not hesitate to ask. We appreciate your business and look forward to a successful event.

FaceitLive 2024 Attendee Room Block

Start Date:

Tuesday, October 29, 2024

End Date:

Wednesday, November 6, 2024

Start Date:

Tuesday, October 29, 2024

Last Day to Book:

Friday, October 4, 2024

Hotel(s) offering your special group rate:

Le Méridien Boston Cambridge for 219 USD per night

Testimonials

Contact Us

A Live Conference With An Elite Faculty

LW Schelke

MD, PhD
Erasmus MC dept Dermatology
Rotterdam Zuid Holland

Leonie Schelke is a Dutch certified cosmetic physician and assistant professor at the Department of Dermatology, Erasmus MC. She has a private practice in Amsterdam for more than 20 years. Since 2010 she and her colleagues run a policlinic for filler complications at the Department of Dermatology, Erasmus MC, Rotterdam the Netherlands (2 days per week, 500 new patients per year).

She received her PhD in the use of duplex ultrasound and the management of filler complications.

She is a teacher in the Dutch certified educational program for cosmetic medicine.

She is co-founder and trainer of CutaneoUS, an organization for ultrasound courses in cosmetic medicine and dermatology

List Of Publications:

  1. Ximena Wortsman 1 2 3, Natacha Quezada 2 4, Osvaldo Peñaloza 4, Fernanda Cavallieri 5, Leonie Schelke 6, Peter Velthuis 6. Ultrasonographic Patterns of Calcium Hydroxyapatite According to Dilution and Mix With Hyaluronic Acid. J Ultrasound Med. 2023 Mar 27. doi: 10.1002/jum.16226. Online ahead of print.
  2. Schelke L, Decates TS, Cartier H , Cotofana S,, Velthuis P. Investigating the Anatomic Location of Soft Tissue Fillers in Noninflammatory Nodule Formation: An Ultrasound-Imaging-Based Analysis. Derm Surgery March 15, 2023. | DOI: 1097/DSS.0000000000003756
  3. Cotofana S, Schelke LW, Velthuis PJ. Commentary on: Doppler Ultrasound Guided Filler Injections: Useful Tips to Integrate Ultrasound in the Daily Practice. Aesthet Surg J. 2023 Feb 2:sjad022. doi: 10.1093/asj/sjad022. Online ahead of print.
  4. Schelke LW, Velthuis P, Kadouch J, Swift A. Early ultrasound for diagnosis and treatment of vascular adverse events with hyaluronic acid filler. J Am Acad Dermatol. 2023 Jan;88(1):79-85. doi: 10.1016/j.jaad.2019.07.032. Epub 2019 Jul 17
  5. Schelke L, Velthuis PJ, Lowry N, Rohrich RJ, Swift A, Alfertshofer M, Frank K, Gotkin RH, Cotofana S. Precision in Midfacial Volumization using Ultrasound-assisted Cannula Injections. Plast Reconstr Surg. 2023 Jan 2. doi: 10.1097/PRS.0000000000010131.
  6. Schelke L, Farber N, Swift A. Ultrasound as an Educational Tool in Facial Aesthetic Injections. Plast Reconstr Surg Glob Open 2022 Dec 12;10(12):e4639. doi: 10.1097/GOX.0000000000004639
  7. Tom S Decates 1, Andries E Budding 2, Peter J Velthuis 1, Yara Bachour 3, Lisanne W Wolters 2,
  8. Leonie W Schelke 1, Tamar E C Nijsten 1, Frank B Niessen 3. Bacterial contamination is involved in the etiology of soft tissue filler, late-onset inflammatory adverse events. Plast Reconstr Surg. 2022 Dec 19. doi: 10.1097/PRS.0000000000010074.
    Leonie W Schelke, Peter J Velthuis, Tom Decates, Jonathan Kadouch, Michael Alfertshofer, Konstantin Frank, Sebastian Cotofana. Ultrasound-guided Targeted vs. Regional Flooding: A Comparative Study for Improving the Clinical Outcome in Soft Tissue Filler Vascular Adverse Event Management. Aesthet Surg J. 2022 Aug 11;sjac227. doi: 10.1093/asj/sjac227. Online ahead of print.
  9. Tamar Schoonen, Leonie Schelke, Peter Velthuis. Filler injections in the pre-auricular area: Be aware of the parotid gland. J cosm Verm acceptedfor publication
  10. Schelke L, Cotofana S, Velthuis P. Two New Phenomena Associated With Filler Injection. Aesthet Surg J. 2023 Feb 3;43(2):NP134-NP135
  11. Stella Desyatnikova, Leonie Schelke. Treatment of filler-related vascular occlusion using handheld portable ultrasound device. J Cosmet Dermatol. 2022 Jul;21(7):3166-3168.
  12. Elzen HE VD, Schelke L, Velthuis PJ. Temporary hair loss after injection of hyaluronic acid filler. J Cosmet Dermatol. 2022;21:625–626
  13. Filler Anatomy. Peter Velthuis, MD, Leonie Schelke, MD, Sebastian Cotofana, MD, PhD.Aesthetic Surgery Journal, 2022, Vol 42(1) NP89- NP90.
  14. Real-Time Ultrasound Imaging of the Tear Trough: Lessons Learned from Functional Anatomy. Mariana Calomeni, MD; Michael G. Alfertshofer; Konstantin Frank, MD; Nicholas Moellhoff, MD;Rebekah Dennison, BS; Bruna Bravo, MD;
  15. Leonie Schelke, MD, PhD; Peter Velthuis, MD, PhD; JeremyB. Green, MD; and Sebastian Cotofana, MD, PhD Aesthet Surg J. 2021 Oct 5;sjab351.
    Leonie Schelke M.D., PhD1,2, Peter J. Velthuis M.D PhD. 1, Natalia Lowry M.D. Ph.D.,3 Rod J. Rohrich M.D.,4 Arthur Swift M.D.,5 Robert H. Gotkin M.D.,6 Nicholas Moellhoff M.D.,7 Konstantin Frank M.D.,7 , Mihai Dumbrava B.A.8, Sebastian Cotofana M.D. Ph.D.8 The Mobility of the Superficial and Deep Midfacial Fat Compartments – An Ultrasound – based Investigation. J Cosmet Dermatol. 2021 Dec;20(12):3849-3856
  16. Velthuis PJ, Schelke LW. Fillers and Vessels: The Story of Arterial Obstruction after Cosmetic Treatment J Angiol Vasc Surg 2021, 6: 069 DOI: 10.24966/AVS-7397/100069
  17. Fabio Ingallina M.D.1*, Michael G. Alfertshofer 2*, Leonie Schelke M.D. 3, Peter J. Velthuis M.D. Ph.D. 4, Konstantin Frank M.D.2, Samir Mardini M.D.5, Elena Millesi 5, Denis Ehrl M.D. Ph.D.2, Jeremy B. Green M.D. 6, Sebastian
  18. Cotofana M.D. Ph.D. The Fascia’s of the Forehead and Temple Aligned – An Anatomic Narrative Review
    Cotofana S, Alfertshofer M, Frank K, Bertucci V, Beleznay K, Swift A, Gavril D, Lachman N, Velthuis PJ, Schelke L. The Change of Plane of the Supratrochlear and Supraorbital Arteries in the Forehead – An Ultrasound based Investigation . ASJ 2021 Feb 28;sjaa421. doi: 10.1093/asj/sjaa421. Online ahead of print.
  19. Arlette J, Velthuis PJ, Schelke LW. Ultrasound for Soft Tissue Filler Facial Rejuvenation J Cutan Med Surg. 2021 May 2;12034754211008167
  20. Decates TS, Velthuis PJ, Schelke LW, Lardy N, Palou E, Schwartz S, Bachour Y, Niessen FB, Nijsten T, Alijotas-Reig J. Increased risk of late-onset, immune-mediated, adverse reactions related to dermal fillers in patients bearing HLA-B*08 and DRB1*03 haplotypes Dermatologic Therapy. 2021;34:e14644.
  21. Schelke L, Decates T, Kadouch J, Velthuis P. Incidence of Vascular Obstruction After Filler Injections. Aesthetic Surgery Journal 2020 Jul; 40(8): NP457–NP460.
  22. Velthuis P, Jansen O, Schelke L, Moon H, Ascher B, Cotofana S. A Guide to Doppler Ultrasound Analysis of the Face in Cosmetic Medicine. Part 1: Standard Positions. Aesthet Surg J. 2021 Oct 15;41(11):NP1621-NP1632.
  23. Velthuis P, Jansen O, Schelke L, Moon H, Ascher B, Cotofana S. A Guide to Doppler Ultrasound Analysis of the Face in Cosmetic Medicine. Part 2: Vascular mapping. Aesthet Surg J 2021 Oct 15;41(11):NP1633-NP1644.
  24. Habib SM, Schelke LW, Onderdijk AJ, Velthuis PJ. Management of dermal filler (vascular) complications using duplex ultrasound. Dermatologic Therapy 2020 Dermatol Ther. 2020 Jul;33(4):e13461
  25. Kadouch J, Schelke LW, Swift A. Ultrasound to Improve the Safety and Efficacy of Lipofilling of the Temples. Aesthet Surg J. 2020 Mar 11.
  26. Schelke LW, Cassuto D, Velthuis P, Wortsman X. Nomenclature proposal for the sonographic description and reporting of soft tissue fillers. J Cosmet Dermatol. 2020 Feb;19(2):282-288. doi: 10.1111/jocd.13127. Epub 2019 Aug 28. Review.
  27. Schelke L, Decates T, Hu C, Velthuis P. [An out-patient clinic for filler complications].Ned Tijdschr Geneeskd. 2019 Jan 3;163. pii: D3074. Dutch.
  28. Schelke LW, Decates TS, Velthuis PJ. Ultrasound to improve the safety of hyaluronic acid filler treatments. J Cosmet Dermatol. 2018 Dec;17(6):1019-1024. Epub 2018 Aug 6.
  29. Schelke LW, Decates TS, van der Lugt CIM, Pelzer L, de Mey G, Velthuis PJ. Intralesional Laser Treatment for Dermal Filler Complications. Plast Reconstr Surg. 2018 Jun;141(6):1361-1369. doi: 10.1097/PRS.0000000000004428.
  30. Schelke LW, Velthuis PJ, van Dijk MR. Polyalkylimide: A Nonstable Filler Over Time. Dermatol Surg. 2018 Apr;44(4):563-567. doi: 10.1097/DSS.0000000000001388.
  31. Schelke LW, Fick M, van Rijn LJ, Decates T, Velthuis PJ, Niessen F. [Unilateral blindness following a non-surgical rhinoplasty with filler]. Ned Tijdschr Geneeskd. 2017;161:D1246. Dutch.
  32. Schelke LW, Van Den Elzen HJ, Erkamp PP, Neumann HA. Use of ultrasound to provide overall information on facial fillers and surrounding tissue.Dermatol Surg. 2010 Nov;36 Suppl 3:1843-51
  33. Schelke LW, van den Elzen HJ, Canninga M, Neumann MH. Complications after treatment with polyalkylimide. Dermatol Surg. 2009 Oct;35 Suppl 2:1625-8

Gretchen W. Frieling

MD

Dr. Gretchen Frieling (“Dr. G”), MD is nationally recognized, Harvard-trained, triple board-certified Dermatopathologist, with over 15 years of experience in Medicine and Dermatopathology. She is the founder and owner of GFaceMD, GFace Academy, The Soyier Skin Collection, and FACEit Virtual/Live, a global aesthetic symposium spanning over 8 countries. She is a global educator and trainer for many pharmaceutical companies, including GAIN, Merz, and Benev. She is at the forefront of ultrasound use in aesthetics and speaks nationally on basic and advanced techniques. She has been featured in numerous media outlets including Yahoo, Oprah Magazine, Elle, Real Self, Bustle, MSN, Shape, NBC News and more.

Additionally, she travels the country to speak in national conferences to educate and propel the aesthetic industry. An expert in advanced consultation, assessment, global rejuvenation and skincare ingredient education, Dr. Frieling approaches her patients with a novel approach to rejuvenation.
Dr. Frieling has an extensive academic background, including numerous publications in peer-reviewed medical journals, selected Editor of medical journals, an author of noteworthy medical textbook chapters, an educator at the Harvard Medical School, and speaker at many national medical conferences, where she educates and propels the aesthetic industry.

Dr. Jonathan Sykes

MD

Dr. Jonathan M. Sykes was the director of Facial Plastic Surgery at the University of California, Davis Medical Center for more than 30 years and an editor of six textbooks and has written over 200 scientific articles, book chapters, and other papers in the medical literature. He is also a highly sought after lecturer, having given over 1,000 lectures locally, nationally, and internationally. Last year, Dr. Sykes gave over 150 lectures.
He has reviewed scientific papers for the Archives of Facial Plastic Surgery, the Aesthetic Surgery Journal, Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery and Laryngoscope. He has performed over 20,000 surgical procedures, and is an expert in rhinoplasty, aging-related surgeries such as facelift, browlift, and eyelid lift surgery. He has a special interest in Facial Feminization Surgery (FFS). He has instructed many people on the anatomy and injection technique for neuromodulators, such as Botulinum Toxin, and is an instructor for many filling agents such as Sculptra. He has been asked to perform live demonstration surgeries in over 15 countries.
Dr. Sykes has a passion for children and enjoys surgery for cleft deformities and craniofacial surgery. He has gone on over 25 humanitarian missions to many countries including the Philippines, El Salvador, Honduras, Russia, Bolivia, Brazil, and China.

He has served on the Board of Directors of the American Academy of Facial Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery for 10 years, having been Western Region Vice President, VP of Education, and most recently, elected President of the AAFPRS in 2010. He recently co-chaired the Many Faces of Giving campaign for the AAFPRS and helped raise over $4 million for FPS education, humanitarian efforts, and research. In 2018, Jonathan Sykes expanded his practice to Southern California as the Director of Facial Plastic & Reconstructive Surgery at The Roxbury Institute in Beverly Hills. Regarded as one of the top facial plastic surgeons in the nation, Dr. Sykes joins the elite team of medical, surgical and aesthetic specialists led by Founder and Medical Director Dr. David Amron. “I could not be happier to begin my appointment as the Director of Facial Plastic & Reconstructive Surgery at The Roxbury Institute,” said Dr. Sykes. “Having the opportunity to work in such a world-class medical, research, and educational facility alongside so many skilled surgeons is a great privilege. I am very much looking forward to contributing to the elite team of specialists here.” Dr. Sykes is currently acting as the Chief Medical Director for Les Encres Threads and serves as a thought leader and educator in the cosmetic thread industry. Jonathan Sykes was also recently recognized as one of the Best Aesthetic Injectors in America for 2019-2020.

Julie Bass Kaplan

FNP-BC, NP-C, MSN, RN, CANS, CPSN, HCMT, PHN
Aesthetic Nurse Specialist, Certified AMI Trainer

Julie is a Co-Founder of Disappearing Act. Julie has been injecting fillers and neurotoxins since 2001. She enjoys the artistic aspect of her career and strives for a very natural look for each of her patients. Julie began her aesthetic career in 1990. She worked in the operating room as a certified surgical technologist (CST) and certified first assistant (CFA).

Julie completed her Associate’s Degree in Nursing (ADN), her Bachelor’s of Science in Nursing (BSN), her Public Health Nurse Certification (PHN), her Health Care Management (HCMT) Certification, a Certification for Plastic Surgical Nursing (CPSN), her Certified Aesthetic Nurse Specialist (CANS), and her Master’s of Science in Nursing (MSN). Most recently, Julie completed Sonoma State University’s Family Nurse Practitioner program in May, 2019.

When Julie is not working at Disappearing Act, she travels to teach the art and safety of medical aesthetic injectables. She holds a certification for Allergan Medical Institute as a speaker and trainer. In addition, Julie is a faculty member for P.A.L.E.T.T.E. Resources, which holds injectable workshops across the US. In addition, Julie is a consultant for CosmoFrance and teaches MicroCannula injection techniques to Aesthetic Practitioners. In addition, Julie founded JBK Aesthetics, for private training and consulting.

Gretchen W. Frieling, MD, Founder & CEO

GFaceMD

Steven F. Weiner

MD

Steven F. Weiner, MD is a Board Certified Head and Neck Surgeon, specializing in Facial Plastic Surgery. He interned and completed his residency at The Johns Hopkins Hospital where he became an instructor for 2 years. In mid-2005 he “laid down his scalpel” and began concentrating 100% of his efforts in non-invasive and minimally invasive cosmetic procedures, creating The Aesthetic Clinique. Dr. Weiner divides his time between his practice, physician trainings, and lectures. He has served on multiple advisory boards, participated in FDA trials, and authored several clinical papers. He is world renown for his filler techniques using cannulas and reJAWvenation ™. He was one of the first to adopt ultrasound into his aesthetic practice in the US and now lectures and trains on using ultrasound for evaluating and treating filler complications and safer filler injections.

Lonny Green

MD

Dr. Lonny Green (@ninjainjector) is a board-certified surgeon with over twenty years of surgical experience. He received his Bachelor of Science degree from Stanford University, his Medical Degree from the UCLA School of Medicine and performed his residency at the Harvard Program in Urology. He did a year of post residency work in Australia, serving as Senior Registrar at the Alfred Hospital Monash University. He later earned a Masters of Business Administration from the University of Saint Thomas in Minneapolis, Minnesota. As part of that program he turned his Capstone project into a thriving business founded in 2000. He continues his role as Chief Executive Officer of the company to this day.

Dr. Green has worked in both Stanford and Harvard University research laboratories. He is an author on multiple peer reviewed papers published in a variety of academic journals, and has been the Principal Investigator in numerous studies. These include the earliest work utilizing Botox as a treatment method for Idiopathic Overactive Bladder. He has served as clinical faculty at the Medical College of Virginia, been an advisor to residents and has a particular passion for teaching. He has lectured nationally and internationally on both the clinical aspects of medicine as well as in the arena of business and leadership. Dr. Green is a firm believer in complementary and alternative medicine and he holds several United States Patents for nutritional supplement formulations.

Dr. Green is the founder, Medical Director and owner of Rêvée Aesthetics, where he works as a full time injector. He specializes in complete facial assessment and balancing with an emphasis on a natural look. He has been on the speakers bureau for many pharmaceutical companies and is currently a National Allergan Medical Institute trainer. He is also the founder of Rêvée Academy, an institution devoted to education and advancement of the Aesthetic Industry. His mission in life is “to help others” and his just cause is “to create a world where everyone is confident in their own skin.

Candice Dery

RDMS

Candice is an experienced Diagnostic Medical Sonographer, specializing in Facial Ultrasound. She holds a degree in Advanced Radiological Sciences and Diagnostic Medical Sonography. Founder of Aesthetic Imaging, Candice educates providers on applied anatomy and improving patient outcomes in aesthetic treatments using ultrasound technology. Her commitment to staying up-to-date with advancements showcases her dedication to providing accurate and high-quality care. Candice’s practical experience and educational background make her a valuable asset in Facial Ultrasound and aesthetic medicine.

Dr MJ Rowland-Warmann (she/her)

BDS, BSc, MSc, Aes. Med, MClin, Dent Orthod, PGDip Endod, PGCert MedEd, Dip.MJDF

Dr MJ Rowland-Warmann is the founder and lead clinician at Smileworks Liverpool. She is a dentist, and holds Masters degrees in Orthodontics and Aesthetic Medicine. Her practice is limited to non-surgical aesthetics with a special area of interest in the management of dermal filler complications using ultrasound, accepting national and international referrals for the resolution of filler-related incidents. She lectures on dermal filler complication management and founded the Smileworks HUB, a training academy for medical professionals to advance their skills in aesthetic medicine and ultrasound. She is a speaker for Clarius Mobile Ultrasound, GE Healthcare and Galderma. Dr Rowland-Warmann is an advocate for greater safety in aesthetics and has been widely published in industry and national media to raise standards within aesthetics.

Alfredo M Ferreyra

RMSKS RDMS ASAR

Alfredo earned his associate degree in Cardiovascular Ultrasound and after graduating, he completed his bachelor’s degree in Diagnostic Medical Sonography in 1998. He then learned Echocardiography during his Clinical rotation at Memorial Hospital Pembroke. Alfredo started working at the Weston Cleveland clinic in 2001 in which he became proficient in Sonography and interventional procedures. He became the Director of the Ultrasound Department and accomplish the American College of Radiology accreditation for the Ultrasound Department. Alfredo was the sonographer in the clinical research study for cervical lymphadenopathy and a member for the liver and kidney transplant team at the Cleveland Clinic. Alfredo moved to Queensland Australia in 2013 where he became versed in Musculoskeletal Sonography examinations and MSK guided needle Injections. He returned to the United States in 2016 practicing and specializing in Musculoskeletal Ultrasound.

His Passion for musculoskeletal Sonography and regenerative medicine have inspire him to open his own company MSKORTHO to teach Physicians Musculoskeletal sonography to achieve accurate results for the patient and physician, especially when using Platelet Rich plasma and Autologous Stem cells. In 2017, Alfredo Ferreyra introduced a revolutionary new approach to his teaching methodology by integrating aesthetics ultrasound into his courses. This innovation enabled him to help providers understand facial anatomy and how to identify fillers more accurately. With his in-depth knowledge of guided needle techniques, Alfredo Ferreyra has been instrumental in educating providers on how to dissolve fillers safely and effectively. In addition to his work as a teacher, Alfredo Ferreyra maintains an active clinical practice, where he provides patients with a wide range of aesthetic services.

Dr. TJ Tsay

MD

Ti Jo “TJ” Tsay, M.D. is the Medical Director/Owner of Ageless M.D., Orange County, California’s premier state of the art aesthetic medicine destination helping thousands of patients look and feel their best at every age. Committed to offering the most advanced innovations in anti-aging, Dr. Tsay is widely recognized for delivering unparalleled results with the distinctive skill of a former E.R. physician. He is featured among California’s top medical professionals and a sought-after international speaker/trainer for many of the latest dermal laser technology methods, as known as trailblazer for elevating the field PDO Thread Lifting in the United States.

Raised in Atlanta, Georgia, Dr. Tsay received a full academic Dean’s Scholarship from Emory University. There, he earned both his Bachelor’s and Master’s degrees in Quantum Chemistry within four years, graduating Summa Cum Laude. He then attended the Medical College of Georgia on a full academic scholarship, completing his residency training in Compton, South Central Los Angeles. For 20 years, Dr. Tsay spent his time saving and changing lives las an Emergency Medicine physician which he is currently board certified in, while choosing to practice aesthetics and anti-aging medicine full time.

Lisa Bachan

BA RDMS RDCS RVT RT CTIC

There is a long history devoted to medicine. Lisa began her medical career in the field of nursing. Then due to an unexpected issue, she had to leave nursing and pursue ultrasound, however no ultrasound program would accept nurses. You had to become a Radiologic Technologist first. She did that and then went to NYU School of Ultrasound, graduated the salutatorian and President of the Class. Then she went back to school for a Bachelor’s degree in Psychology of Education (teaching degree back then) with a minor in the hard premed sciences. Lisa then went back to school for other areas in preparation for a possible medical school adventure.

In her career spanning 38 years in ultrasound, Mrs. Bachan went on to be a clinical instructor for ultrasound students and residents, a Program Director and a Department Head. Lisa has worked at Yale New Haven Hospital, Medical University of South Carolina, Landmark Medical Center and Ultra Select Medical to name just a few. She was responsible for teaching new procedures in ultrasound, researching product development and didactic curriculum development in many areas of ultrasound. Lisa did the dedicated time to obtain her GCP certification for research with a 98% pass rate in all areas. To this date she is the only sonographer who was admitted to ACRP for her contributions to research in ultrasound. Lisa is passionate about moving the field forward and providing new opportunities in ultrasound and for sonographers.